WHY????????

[Ms._Shiznitty]

Can anyone please refresh my memory and tell me why the fuck we're going to war? Or aren't there any good reasons for all this...all i keep thinking of is hundreds and hundreds of innocent women and children who will probably die because of this... :( Why don't people learn to compromise anymore.

[MedieVal]

saddam wants to hide all of his shit and eventually once he got to a level of where he was feeling a little too confident, he'd take out everyone and anyone he could. hes all about ruling the world, not his country, hes got that.. he wants more. .so we're going to put an end to that shit along with most of the world.. cause he's already got his storage of chemical/bio weapons, if we let his ass get a nuke.. everyone is fucked because he'll want to kill everyone. i think thats a religion of his. i dont know. but, its for the best interest of the world.. maybe if we wouldve taken care of his ass at desert storm this wouldve never got this far. i think thats the story in a nutshell. not my nuts though.

-mar.k

[Webmaster]

I agree with you 100% Mark. It has to be done. The man is Evil. He is hiding terrorists from Al Quaeda they are saying now. 911 was sponsored by Iraq in my view. They will never tell us the truth though.

Also the oil. The ONLY reason the Germans and French dont want us to go in there is because they have all of Iraqs oil contracts. Before the French and Germans owned the oil contracts, they were owned by Exxon-Mobil, from the USA. Now its our turn to take the oil back for a while, as well as get rid of saddam.

To really see the bigger picture of why we are going to war, read this article:
A history of Iraq, the cradle of Western civilization (http://www.startribune.com/stories/1762/3626448.html)

It will help you understand the History of Iraq, and how superpowers just keep trading it back and forth, and using its resources.

[Captain]

The boundaries of modern Iraq were settled by British officials, including Winston Churchill, who combined three Ottoman districts, the northern mostly Kurdish district administered from Mosul; the middle mostly Sunni Arab district, which contained Baghdad; and the southern mostly Shiite district, whose major city was Basra.

In Arab nationalist thinking, these decisions reflected the British desire to create an inherently unstable nation, lacking historical legitimacy and forcing three antagonistic groups to live together, so the country would never be strong and unified and would be more easily controlled by outsiders.

When the British drew Iraq's boundaries, they lopped off Kuwait, even though it had been part of the Basra district during Ottoman times. This map-drawing was at the core of Saddam's argument that by invading Kuwait, he was only recapturing Iraq's lost 13th province.

Historian Renee Worringer, who teaches Mideast history at the University of Minnesota, said many Americans seem unaware of the degree to which Iraqi attitudes toward the United States are shaped by their previous experience with Western imperialism.

"The perception is that the modern boundaries of Iraq were created by outsiders, who ignored historic divisions within the country between Sunni, Shia and Kurd, because they were guided by their own interests. In the case of the British, their interests were to control the oil, and to have a land route to India. . . .

"People tend to forget the profoundness of the anti-imperial sentiment created by this period. It still exists and it has an effect on views of the U.S. today, especially after 10 years of sanctions that have starved and frustrated people. It has reminded Iraqis that there is still an imperial power out there trying to control us and to exploit our oil wealth. If I was Iraqi, given the experience they've had with outside powers . . . I would assume the oil is the main motive for the Americans now."

Nate...thanks for the article!
This is a reason why I am not totally with the war. I agree, lets get rid of Hussien, but do we need to go to war to do it? It's no wonder why they hate us, a big reason is because we are in it for the oil, no question about it and if you deny it you are fooling yourself. If we would have just left em alone in the first place we would have never had to be in position.

graemlins/yell.gif graemlins/peace.gif graemlins/peace.gif

[Jay Bee]

The "we're in it for oil" and "son is fighting for daddy" bullshit is just that.. liberals babbling nonsensical shit.

[Captain]

your closed minded view, resentment and immediate name calling shows your intelligence

[Ms._Shiznitty]

i've gotta say that i can see where Captain is coming from...do we need to go to war in order to take out Saddam? What about North Korea? Do we need to go to war w/ them too? And i think the've got some mad missiles going on.

You know what...i was just thinking...countries around the world who hate the U.S. probably do because they see that we can't respect each other. It's like one man for himself in the country. We all have different opinions, we express them, but when we see others saying the opposite...we get pissed and tell them why their wrong. This country is based on freedom of speech, but were's the freedom to speak when you're constantly being shut down. :confused:

[Jay Bee]

My view is far from close-minded.
I have no resentment.
I called no names.

Look at reality, like the obviously stupidity of thinking that "we're in it for the oil".

[substance]

I agree mostly with jay bee.Just because you have a sarcastic view doesn't mean your not intelligent.I do think it's liberal bullshit.War is not the answer in most things,but we got ourselves N2deep and now we have to put our money where our mouths are.Unfortuneately we ARE a target now....It's been years of us causing it to get to this point.Now we have to take care of it...


Peace Substance graemlins/fight.gif

[Captain]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Substance:
War is not the answer in most things,but we got ourselves N2deep and now we have to put our money where our mouths are.Unfortuneately we ARE a target now....It's been years of us causing it to get to this point.Now we have to take care of it...


Peace Substance graemlins/fight.gif [/QB]<hr></blockquote>

How can you say Peace and be all for war subs? just wondering...

Exactly my point, why did we get ourselves this deep? We did get ourselves n2deep, but why does violence need to be the answer? Violence is always the admittance of failure. I'm no hippie, and if you wanna call me a liberal fine, but I see myself as a humanitarian. I truly care about other people, even if they hate me. I don't see a reason to make Iraq hate us more. If they are truly a threat to us, then we do need to take action. But where is the proof that they are making us a target? only targeting I see is the US gov targeting Iraq. And oh yeah, the news reports this and the news reports that. Can't trust em...for example, the company that has one of the top 3 US government contracts for the military just happens to own NBC, this company being G.E. so how can they report AGAINST the war if they are privately gaining from the war? Too much money and corruption for me to back this war. If i see that iraq is indeed targeting us for an attack, bomb the hell outta em if thats the answer, but we cannot be trigger happy cuz of 9/11. it's irresponsible. damn my boy is crying gotta run
graemlins/peace.gif graemlins/peace.gif graemlins/peace.gif graemlins/bandit.gif

[substance]

I say peace to my family and or freinds that I meet on this board or anywhere......

I say peace because I sincerely mean for a person to have a peacful day.No stress no bullshit.....

It seems like you and I are only a bit off of eachothers answers.The only difference is that I consider Sadaam a threat as it stands and you don't until he blatently says he wants to blow us up.Those mutha fuckers are on some guerilla warfare shit.If they do anything it's going to be a suprise.....We ask them to prove that they got rid of their hazardous weapons and they haven't done shit....I personally have a view that if you want to fuck around with me ,I'm gonna get you....This doesn't mean that I'm not a peaceful man.It just means that I will defend myself with just cause.Even though I will never agree with most US tactics.I do beleive that Sadaam is a threat and something needs to be done....

Just my 2 cents

PEACE substance

[substance]

Captain we need to meet up soon and have along convo over some alcohol.......Stay up!!!

Peace Substance

[Captain]

WORD ON THE BOOZE
HOLLA AT A TALL FAT WHITE BOY AT HE BAR

[MedieVal]

the north korea topic is on a bunch of shit.. i kind of interpret what i can off of the cnn reports or whatever i see it on.. basically.. the dude is bullshitting with his nukes.. back in 96 (?) i believe... clinton signed a treaty saying if you turn your nuclear reactors off, i'll feed your poor people in return.. so he did that, and then he got balls and turned them back on w/the new president.. being bush, and bush is standing by this treaty.. and he cut off the food supply to them, now this fuckhead is threatening to use nuclear force.. when 1. he has no nuclear capability to launch them that far. and 2. he just wanted to take advantage of the U.S. and his own people in a weird sense.. hes just playing bullshit with the whole nuke thing. like.. thatd be me saying im gonna hit you if you dont buy me a beer, when you know i wont. that should be a good analogy for this.. because thats basically what it is.

-Eg0.

[Captain]

o ya..got too excited about booze n forgot bout what i was gonna say...

ya they are on gurilla warfare shit, but don't we pay millions or billions for the CIA and FBI to uncover that kind of shit for us? I realize thats how its gonna go down if it does, but let have the govenment agencies have some accountablilty for what they are supposed to do. 9/11 coulda been prevented, Bush had info given to him about what could happen and eventually did happen, the FBI fucked up royaly to give the understatement of the year. But they need to do their effin job and sniff that shit out or else get rid of em. its tough work, but there is no room for error when it comes down to attacks of that nature.

I dont like labels, but if u wanna use em, conservatives and liberals want exactly the same things when u get right down to it. it's good to have both so that they even each other out a bit. I try to stay in the middle as much as possible, but that doesn't always happen. Anyway the difference is on how they want to get these things done and if the politicians woudl stop bickering for govenment power and try to really work together on these issues maybe we could go without war or at least be a better country because of it...I hate politicans. :mad:
but me and ol' Clinton have 1 thing in common, we love hummers on the job!
booze

[ February 12, 2003: Message edited by: Captain ]</p>

[Mr. Grouchface]

saddam is not much worse off than possibly hitler or any other war mongering dictator that has risen to power. he needs to be eliminated at all costs... along with him any member of his bloodline too. his sons are nuttier than he his.

i dont know if you have ever read or done any research on the hussein familia but they are some pretty righteously evil people. a couple examples... olympians in iraq if they fail to compete at a certain level get tossed in a prison made specifically for athletes and get tourchered beyond comprehension. another example... one of saddam's sons executed one of his limo drivers because the driver did not get him to his destination in time... not to mention that this execution was done publicly infront of women and children. saddam's sons are also notorious for raping women that they pick up off the streets with no warning or cause.

the husseins scare the living shit out of their people and are far from humanitarians. screw all notions of oil & gas and other petroleum products... this on coming war shouldnt be about the disarming of iraq's weapons... but for the civil rights of the people that live there.

the death toll from this war (if it happens) will not be pretty... but the price hopefully that is payed will pay off.

PS. jaybee is far from an idiot.

[substance]

I don't have much faith in the CIA,FBI or DEA(especially these dumb fucks)

I don't think casualties are going to be a big problem.Have ya'll checked out the weapons that our military uses.THe fucking smart missle that they launch from 7-800 miles away.It's like playing a video game.....I know we will see some ground troops being taken out but I don't think it will have much bloodshed.What has changed in Sadaam's arsenal since 90' that makes him think he won't get his ass kicked in a week again?

WHen it comes down to it,I just think that Sadaam has to get taken out....Put aside all other bullshit,he is the new Hitler...Him or Bush,I haven't figured that out yet...

Peace SUbstance

[Emily]

After how many years of the U.S. getting involved in things that really have nothing to do with us did September 11th happen?

We don't need to go to war, we need to mind our own business.

I don't care what anyone thinks, if the United Nations isn't backing us up, there's some damn good reasons.

Tell me what we could possibly gain if we "win" this war.

[Captain]

Subs and Asbestos, if he is indeed a threat to OTHER NATIONS OR OURSLEVES then take him and ONLY HIM out. if he is a threat to his own nation, let them take care of it. Why do we need to interfere with thier problems? Until it is OUR problem, lets stay out.
graemlins/peace.gif graemlins/peace.gif

[ February 13, 2003: Message edited by: Captain ]</p>

[Mr. Grouchface]

yeah i just read up on some new weapons we are lookin to unleash on iraq if this goes down. one is this micro wave tomahawk missle... that does not explode or anything or cause casualities. the missle emits as much energy (in the form of microwaves) as the hover dam produces in one day. these microwaves will fry any type of electical components... computers... weapons guidence systems. rendering the enemy defenseless.

i really believe that we will never see a war with the type of casualties from WW II ever again. technology is making war less and less harmful and creating fewer human casualties.

[substance]

Captain-That's where we differ I guess because I beleive he is a threat to the world including us.Him teamed with any of our other enemies could have catastrophic consequences.If N Korea gets involved you can bet China will too! I always look at things in the long run.I would rather have few casualties in a small war than 100,000's in a world war.I'm just as scared as anyone about all out war.I'd rather be preemptive than suprised.That's just the way I look at things sometimes.I'm not getting caught up in gov't propaganda.I genuinely feel that Sadaam(himself )is a extreme threat.Especially if teamed up with another regime....

Substance graemlins/bandit.gif

[Captain]

Well Subs I guess if you don't feel you are getting caught up in gov. propaganda then to me thats half the battle. I just have to wonder why nobody else is backing us on this? ya somebody brought up frnace and britian own some rights or something to the oil, but there has got to be more to it than just that...anyway if it means taking out just Saddam, then do it, but I know thats not what we are going to do otherwise why would we deploying thousands upon thousands of troops? Im no military expert, but that sounds like an arial and ground strike to me when you deploy as many soldiers as we are. maybe im wrong on that, if I am call me on it..

peace in the middle east brotha

Boozehound graemlins/lol.gif graemlins/peace.gif

[substance]

That part I don't know about.....

Let's just hope Big brother makes the right decision....

Substance

[cliff snotes]

who do you care about YOUR country or theirs i think the whole anti war thing has just become a trend for people who like to bitch about the president its for our country where you live ins safety thats why we're going to war

[Ms._Shiznitty]

Are you sure that's the only reason we're going to war? And not everyone that's against the war is all about bitching...can you back that up?

[Captain]

Cliff put more thought into that post...get the facts and formualte your opinion, dont let the media or others do it for you! graemlins/pimp.gif

[casual]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> why does violence need to be the answer? Violence is always the admittance of failure <hr></blockquote>

Wrong. This Country was formed from the result of a war. Our greatest achievements have been the result of war. Black people are no longer slaves because of a war. Many attempts at world domination were halted by war. Land disputes are settled by war.

Any American who is anti-military should be kicked right the fuck out. Seriously, you disrespect every man who gave his life protecting this great nation.

If you don't know why were going to war, go find a copy the President's State of the Union Address on the web. He gives every reason needed. And if you don't agree with it, take your homo supporting ass to Istanbul and don't come back.

[Captain]

i dont need to support anything, thats my fucking right as an american asshole..WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO TELL ME TO GET THE FUCK OUT? This country was based on protest of oppression from the british on religion, freedom of speech, the basic bill of rights. It was Thomas Jefferson himself who said if the government cannot be trusted, it is up to the citizens of the country to prostest and if need take arms. I'm not quoting cuz im not into writing thou's and thee's...so one of the forefathers of this country said that is more than american to protest, including war. I respect and honor those that have gone to war for this country, it isnt them I disagee with. they are doing the job they are supposed to do and they do a damn good job. this country is getting so right winged its crazy...ahhh im gonna shoot myself we are so damn greedy and trigger happy....i give up! kill the world, USA USA USA dominate the world!

anyway man dont tell me to get the fuck out, thats bullshit. I dont see you doin a GOD DAMN THANG bout the war to support it, DICKRYDER

[casual]

Captain-

Let me clarify, the first paragraph in my post was for you and that's it. The rest was a general message for anyone who falls into the anti-military category. From your post I figured you aren't ant-military but at the same time you contradicted yourself by saying war doesn't accomplish anything.

You can oppose this war until Hilary Clinton comes to save you from the 'evil righties,' I couldn't care less. But anytime someone underminds the importance of war I gotta say someting.

Just can't figure out why anyone would oppose this upcoming war unless they are in the complete dark.

Have a great day all. The Simpsons 300th episode is tonight!

[cliff snotes]

even though this is a touchy subject, these are my beliefs you dont have to agree with them but respect them

[Ms._Shiznitty]

Cliff Notes, i do respect your beliefs and opinions, i'm only trying to take in both sides here. Casual, you need to let go. I'm neither from the U.S. or from Istanbul. I've lived most of my life outside of the U.S. enough to see what people really think of this country. And maybe i should take your advice...i can usually tell where i'm not wanted.

There are many mixed statements going around from people outside of the U.S., the reason i don't understand why we should go to war, is only because i have lived in countries that have been torn apart because of war, civil war, and war w/ othter countries. I have lost relatives and friends. Therefore, i don't believe that war is the solution to all problems, especially when one side is at an advantage and has much to gain.

[Webmaster]

There are many Nations backing us up on this. The entire NATO Alliance except for 3 countries (Belgium, France, and Germany) are ready to go in.

So when people say there is no support for this, then that statement is false.

If people protested FOR war, the marches would be in the millions...

Read another article about IRAQ to learn more about its history. (http://www.startribune.com/stories/1762/3652506.html)

We must stop the spread of evil.

Has anyone ever played RISK? Try thinking of the earth as a risk board. We need to be in there strategically to fight the war on terror.

We will be in Iraq, and Afghanistan. That allows us to put hte SQUEEZE on Iran, which is right in the middle.


graemlins/freak5.gif

[cliff snotes]

you people bring good points

[RandM]

Some words from the Dalai Lama in Howard C. Cutler, M.D.'s book, The Art of Happiness: "In general, if we carefully examine any given situation in a very unbiased and honest way, we will realize that to a large extent we are also responsible for the unfolding of events.
"For instance, many people blamed the Gulf War on Saddam Hussein. Afterwards, on various occasions I expressed, 'That's not fair!' Under such circumstances, I really feel kind of sorry for Saddam Hussein. Of course, he is a dictator, and of course, there are many other bad things about him. If you look at the situation roughly, it's easy to place all the blame on him--he's a dictator, totalitarian, and even his eyes look a little bit frightening! But without his army his capacity to harm is limited, and without military equipment that powerful army cannot function. All this military equipment is not produced by itself from thin air! So, when we look at that, many nations are involved."

and regarding enemies: "...you might reflect on the fact that when you are really angry at someone you tend to perceive them as having 100 percent negative qualities. Just as when you are strongly attracted to someone the tendency is to see them as having 100 percent positive qualities. But this perception does not correspond with reality. If you friend, who you view as so wonderful, were to purposely harm you in some way, suddenly you would become accutely aware that they aren't composed of 100 percent good qulities. ...So, even though when you are angry at someone you might feel that the person has no positive qualities, the reality is that nobody is 100 percent bad."

is he right, is he wrong? ^shrug^ it's just a shifted perspective.

[casual]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> is he right, is he wrong? ^shrug^ it's just a shifted perspective. <hr></blockquote>

There is truth in what he says, but to what degree of good are we talking? I mean even the most wicked people in the history of mankind have had their moments of good. The man has caused over a million casualties during his reign as leader, I wouldn't call him a saint.

[Webmaster]

Feeling sorry for Saddam is an absolute joke. So is quoting the Dali Lama. What are you going to do stand there and get your ass kicked, or you going to step up and defend yourself and your country?

[Captain]

yeah I'm with u there in a way..I dont feel sorry 4 him thats for sure. he could easily end what is going on by being more open to inspections.

[defone]

www.iol.ie/~forsacosanta/world_needed_proof.htm (http://www.iol.ie/~forsacosanta/world_needed_proof.htm)

THERES YOUR PROOF FOR WAR!!!!!

[elray]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by defone:
www.iol.ie/~forsacosanta/world_needed_proof.htm (http://www.iol.ie/~forsacosanta/world_needed_proof.htm)

THERES YOUR PROOF FOR WAR!!!!!<hr></blockquote>

BBWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!
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