Moore's New FIlm on Bush

[cb]

Michael Moore Takes Aim at George W. Bush for Next Doc
by Christopher Henderson

Michael Moore, pictured backstage at the recent Independent Spirit Awards, is gearing up for his next documentary.


Stagehands may get the chance to boo Michael Moore a second time at Oscar 2005. Moore has found a surprising production company, Mel Gibson's Icon Productions to back his next film "Fahrenheit 911." The new documentary will be no less controversial than the Oscar-winning "Bowling for Columbine."

"The primary thrust of the film is what happened to the country since Sept. 11 and how the Bush administration used this tragic event to push its agenda," commented Moore in an interview with Variety. "It certainly does deal with the Bush and bin Laden ties. It asks a number of questions that I don't have the answers to yet, but which I intend to find out."

The potential furor around the new film and the tumult surrounding Moore's Oscar night speech did nothing to deter bidders for "Fahrenheit 911." Variety called the sale, which ended with Icon's bid of more than $10 million up front and potential back end, a "fevered auction." Gibson, a staunch Republican, put politics aside, apparently swayed more by "Bowling for Columbine's" $40 million worldwide gross than its left-leaning bent.

Moore began researching "Fahrenheit 911" more than a year ago and intends to complete it in time for submission to Cannes 2004 and a theatrical release prior to the presidential election next November.

The Bush - bin Laden ties that Moore will explore include George Bush Sr.'s business dealings with Mohammed bin Laden, the Saudi construction magnate who left $300 million to his son, Osama and the connection between the Bush Sr. led CIA and the forces in Afghanistan that fought the Soviet Union in the late 70s and early 80s.

In his Variety interview, Moore attributed the "Fahrenheit" deal and increased sales of his book "Stupid White Men" since his Oscar speech to public support for his politics. "It's because the majority of Americans agree with me, see the economy in the toilet, and didn't vote for George W. People are now realizing that you can question your government while still caring about the soldiers."

[Jay Bee]

Fuck that fat faggot. Send son to France, or better yet, kill his lard retarded ass.

[cb]

He is a fat fuck and his speech at the Oscars made me want to spew all over my girls tits but his films are always entertaining and great for a laugh. But the mans views of the US is false. He's making money writing and filming movies about exploitation when hes doing the same thing with all these hippie fucks. Fat fuck.

[holla back]

wow... i know id rather suport moore over bush anyday


fuck since when did it become so popular to be a right winger..

how can you even be a right winger and be so involved in hip hop..hip hop by nature has left wing views

shit dosnt make sense to me

[naturalelement]

wndr if he's gnna dive in2 the whol bush askn for billns of $ frm the UN...for ths bullsht tht nvr shld have happnd in the frst fukn plc ATTCK ON IRQ. hmmm. prolly to new of a bonehead-bush adminstrn dvlpmnt to make the cut. douchebags. bsh dlvrs his speech lookn rght in2 the camera as if he's addrssn sadman hus dirctly: if u thnk these attcks and lack of $ is gnna keep us outta thr, u gotta anthr thngn comin. we're goin to the UN, so thr.

give me a brk.

an thn thrs the fam tht waitd till 2 fukn yrs aftr the fact to bury thr son...no, no wait a minute. bury a vial of thr son's blood in a REGLR SIZE COFFN....ugggg...actually as cruel as it may sound, i strtd laughn, here these guys are carrin a coffn of some dude blood tht was takn yrs and yrs ago for some tst. now i have NO idea the enormity of pain and suffrn the prnts wnt through, no one shld have to go through tht. but ya knw, thy'r the ones draggn sht out. come on lets be realstc...he prolly slf combustd or somthng, duh, sht was blowin up lft, rght...for a long time, collpsn...he's gone. 2 yrs, he's gone. life's a bitch, not dealn w/ reality doesn't make it not so. cnn, supr station...grt headlines. glorified b.s.

whoa, bttr get bck to wrk...chll out some.

[a_money]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by holla back:

fuck since when did it become so popular to be a right winger..

how can you even be a right winger and be so involved in hip hop..hip hop by nature has left wing views
<hr></blockquote>

What kind of hip-hop do you listen to?

I don't know a rapper who isn't a homophobe.
The biggest names in rap (Simmons, Combs, Dame Dash, etc.) are self-made men who came up from obscurity to dominance.
Three universal subjects in rap: God, family, guns.
Everyone treats women who rap like novelties and little sisters.

How much more right wing can you get?!?! What I can't believe is that 50 Cent, Russell Simmons and Diddy aren't all up in the GOP convention this year.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by naturalelement:
bsh dlvrs his speech lookn rght in2 the camera as if he's addrssn sadman hus dirctly: if u thnk these attcks and lack of $ is gnna keep us outta thr, u gotta anthr thngn comin. we're goin to the UN, so thr. <hr></blockquote>

Nice, very thoughtful analysis.
So in choosing between:

- investing long term in Iraq for their success as a liberal democracy
OR
-pulling out now to save us money, leaving them mired in poverty and destruction to clean up *our* mess

you would go with the latter?
Very compassionate. I can tell you care about people outside the US.

a$

[ September 08, 2003: Message edited by: Aaron Money ]</p>

[naturalelement]

not tryn to write out a "well thought out" thesis, i'm writin my thoughts on a partclr topic of discssn on an infrml msg board. my pt, a$, was tht we ddn't belng thr in thr frst plc. we OBVSLY cn't pull out. ths was all a well fabrctd pln, duh. if we pull out aftr askn for $ frm the UN, we're not gnna take the all the blame for the sht tht goes dwn thr, the UN will take a good deal of heat. plnnd, plnnd, plnnd. puttn countries btween a rock an a hrd plc, wht they gonna do? unlike a lot of ppl, thy're not desenstzd to the atrocities.

it's funny how u ASSume so mch bout me/my prspctv and end up bein wrng nearly evry sngl time. suggstion, try inquirin instead of presumin.

ur analysis on hip hop makes me wanna thrw up...god, fam, guns...hmmmm, limtd selections. and the F aspct, womn are stll comin up. against opposition, like tht's anythng new. and i'm not complainin eithr, so dn't go thr.

[a_money]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by naturalelement:

it's funny how u ASSume so mch bout me/my prspctv and end up bein wrng nearly evry sngl time.

ur analysis on hip hop makes me wanna thrw up...god, fam, guns...hmmmm, limtd selections. and the F aspct, womn are stll comin up. against opposition, like tht's anythng new. and i'm not complainin eithr, so dn't go thr.<hr></blockquote>

I look at what you write and respond to it.
You suggested that Bush's request for more money for Iraq is illegitimate or foolish in some way:

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>
if u thnk these attcks and lack of $ is gnna keep us outta thr, u gotta anthr thngn comin. we're goin to the UN, so thr.
<hr></blockquote>

I'm not assuming anything about you. I'm reacting to what you wrote.

As far as my limited selections of rap that are right wing, where can you disagree? I'm sorry it makes you puke, but the fact is most rappers are big fat conservatives. Hating Bush and Ashcroft doesn't make you liberal, neither does wanting social justice. I would even say lefty poster boys Dead Prez are actually right wingers.

It ain't my fault, I'm just the messenger.

a$

[ September 09, 2003: Message edited by: Aaron Money ]</p>

[naturalelement]

wht i put in thr bout bush was a play of words, how he lookd like he was facn off w/ sadman...NOT an ovrview of the speech.

to me, telln the U.N. he needs $87B's+ is a gross display of a guilt trp. tryin to intrnatnalz a devastn situation tht hardly any1 who ddn't owe the U.S., was for in the frst plc. he knw damn well the U.S. was not goin to be able to fund ths missn(so did the majrty, till the majrty was brainwashd othrwise, thus the sadman=911 sht). but the admin wnt ahead and illegally strtd ths invasion and occupation. knwin thy wld create ths disasterous pit of inhumanity & some1 wld have to attmpt to create/maintain some degree of ordr, attempt to keep ppl alive, attmpt to build a new foundatn to replc the ruins aftr sht hit the fan.

in comes the plea to the U.N. again, i feel humiliatd. u mean to tll me ur alrght w/ ths? ths is a grt example of an unnecessary necessity. wsn't necessary, but now thr's no way round spnding &87BILLION+++++, cn't emphasis the + enough cause ya knw damn wll $87B's is not enough. the bush admin has lied, lied, lied...bush's shameful hllywoodesche disply aboad tht aircrft carrier (nice suit wannabe, to stupid to b tard)w/ the fukn "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" bnnr bhind him...lie...now wht? run outta options? ths is bttr thn young & the restless or dynasty, only "real" ppl/chldrn are dyin, an entire country is raped of it's resources and history, while all ths is goin on, the wrld continues to progrss. everythng thr digresses.

thr are bttr ways to go bout ths. yea, it's gnna cost hella $, but like some wise prson once said: afterall, freedom is smply bein able to deal w/ the consequences of ur actions. lotta cnsquences to deal w/ b4 we can evn begn to thnk of LIBERATING/FREEIN IRAQ, dn't u thnk?

an i knw thr r a lot of rghts in rap, but thr's jst as mny lfts. sayn fam, god, guns is universl stll makes me wanna puke. i guess i jst dn't see it tht way...i mean, u forgot bout bling, ho's, and hennie/kris. come on a$.

nvr said hatn bush/asscrft (i dn't hate any1 by the way, to mch negtv enrgy to crry round)made 1 a librl, neithr w/ the socjus bit. so not gettn whr tht came frm. bein somethn means takn the steps, actin...not jst sayn.

kill the mssngr.

[Blatant]

if bush wasnt president, then gore would be right?

so do all you bush haters think gore would be doing a better job with everything thats goin on right now?

would 9-11 have happened at all? if so what do you think gore would have done?
would we or iraq be in a better situation if bush was not in office?

yeah, i can see it now, the man who claimed to have invented the internet, clearly a truthful person, makin the public happy.

c'mon people we were fuckin attacked!
do you really think another president would have handled it any better?

i myself dont like bush, i didnt vote for him. but i dont think anyone could really do any better than what bush has been doing.
not that hes done a great job, but i dont think anyone can really do a great job after what happened to the US on 9-11.

[naturalelement]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Blatant:
[QB]c'mon people we were fuckin attacked!
QB]<hr></blockquote>

ths sht is un-fukn-real.

so we were attckd by...irq?? ths is a new dvlpmnt. chck the facts, in no way is the 9.11 attck a reasn to attck IRQ. now if sadman an his crw did it, thn the sitch is diffrnt.

do i thnk the gore adminstrtn wld do a bttr job thn the bush admin, damn straight i do. do i thnk gore has made mstakes, yes. do i thnk he's creepy as all hell, yes. do i thnk him slobberin all ovr tippr was foul, most def--BIG DEAL. wht a waste of time...cn't chng what hppnd, we have to learn frm it and make sure we dn't make the same mstakes.

[ September 09, 2003: Message edited by: naturalelement ]</p>

[Blatant]

i applaud your extraordinary ability to misread and misunderstand my post, bravo! bravo! *claps hands*

you've truely out done yourself this time.

of course we cant change what happened. the point i was tryin to make which seems to have clearly gone right over your head, was that no matter who is in office, what happened to the US was completly fucked. nothing Bush can do is really gonna make everyone happy. tax cuts, less jobs etc etc. those kinds of things happen after the symbol of the worlds economy has been destroyed.

in case you didnt realize, the topic here isnt war on iraq. its BUSH. i made comments about Bush, and you took them as comments towards you, about the war.

weather iraq had anything to do with 9-11 or not(which by the way hasnt been disproved nor has it been proved as afar as i know) doesnt have much do to with the point i was tryin to make.

which leads me to another point. how the fuck do you know iraq had nothing to do with the attacks on 9-11?
maybe you should think about being a CIA since you seem to have so much insight as to who directed these attacks.

the same government that told you osama was behind it, told you iraq was involved. why do you question them only when you disagree with the actions they take in order to bring justice to the people who did this?

[carli]

At least when a democrat was in office everyone had jobs and the economy was at a all time high.
Bush blaming the 9-11 fiasco on the economy and jobs is such a cop out. His dad has the same unemployment rates when he was in office also.

[Blatant]

yeah, 9-11 has ntohing to do with why we have less jobs, i mean the World Trade Center was just a big office. after all what does world trade have to do with the economy? nothing at all right?

:rolleyes:

[naturalelement]

hmmm, srry to me ALOT of ur frst post seemd to be drctd towards the war. if i'm mstakn, thn i am, easy to do jst readn. bout it goin ovr my head, fat chance.

u said: come on we were attckd. i said, 9.11 not a reason to attck irq. no one wll evr knw the absolute truth, but goin to war on a vry, vry slight notion tht sadman had anythng to do w/ it is b.s. and the fact tht u seem to thnk it's justifiable basd on 9.11 is asanine.

brng ppl to justice...ths is ur idea of justice??

in case u ddn't realize my commnts were towards tht partcular commnt, whch has evrthng to do w/ the war. thn wnt on to talk bout gore. nvr once did i say gore wld make everythng all bttr, nope ddin't do tht. ddn't say sht bout any of the bush admins othr wrk eithr. graspin mch?

i ALWAYS QUESTION no mttr wht topic it is. i dn't fully believe anythng i read, hear, see. naive. but i do believe in seekin out numerous sources and basin my opinion on tht. whn i thnk somethngs wrong, i'll say it, vice versa.

[Blatant]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by naturalelement:
hmmm, srry to me ALOT of ur frst post seemd to be drctd towards the war.<hr></blockquote>

hmmm, thats funny, considering my post didnt even contain the word war.

so if saddam did have somethin to do with it, and if we could put an end to his regime in order to lessen the chances of another attack, you dont think thats worth it?

i doubt you'd be sayin that if you had been inside the world trade center when it was bombed.

well, i think whoever bombed us deserves to be taken out, yes, i guess that is my idea of justice.
what would yours be?
giving them a spanking?

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by naturalelement:
in case u ddn't realize my commnts were towards tht partcular commnt, whch has evrthng to do w/ the war. thn wnt on to talk bout gore. nvr once did i say gore wld make everythng all bttr, nope ddin't do tht. ddn't say sht bout any of the bush admins othr wrk eithr. graspin mch?<hr></blockquote>

that makes no sense at all, so im not even gonna bother responding to that one.

you still didnt answer my question about why you decide to believe that osama was behind 9-11 but disregard any information pointing out iraqs involvment.
instead you got all upset at the idea that puttin an end to a terrible regime who may have been involved, is justice.

[a_money]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Blatant:

the same government that told you osama was behind it, told you iraq was involved. why do you question them only when you disagree with the actions they take in order to bring justice to the people who did this?<hr></blockquote>

This is a great question. Getting over partisanship in my views towards our diplomatically/linguistically challenged Prez helped me realize that sometimes the wrong people can be dead right. And sometimes the right people can be way fucking wrong.

But let's get some facts here:
1) There is no way Iraq had anything to do with 9/11.
2) The economy has slowly been on the rebound since the onset of the 2000 recession and according to a lot of indicators, has actually IMPROVED steadily since *before* 9/11/01. Jobs do not make the economy.
3) Let's not act like the UN is the arbiter of fairness anywhere. The UN is just as partisan, self-interested and ignorant as our own government. The fact is that the competing views and interests there make them impotent.
4) We have been at war with Iraq since 1991. Their breaches of UN resolutions and the cease fire agreements have left them open to invasion and action since (our own violations are irrelevant).

Tiff, what makes our current conflict hard is that our enemy has no nation. No country will fire a missile against us, but the '93 WTC attack and 9/11 still happened. What I hear in your words is that if we just keep to ourselves, no one will bother us and that if there's no country to fight, we shouldn't fight anyone.

I think Iraq represents a great opportunity to do right by the rest of the world. It's also an opportunity to fuck up royally. But when no one here supports what we do one way or another and hysteria rules, then we all lose.

a$

[marktripper]

dude never said he invented the internet. can't BELIEVE so many people fell for that right wing spin so easily, and to this day.

he said he took the initiative to create the internet. which he did. the infrastrutcture of the internet as we now know it, making it available to anyone, was a plan that needed government support. and it was senator gore who led that initiative.

the ACTUAL nuts and bolts creaters of the internet give gore all the props he deserves for making it as successful as it is. but because bill o rielly can say whatever the fuck he wants without worrying about any sense of truth or perspective, every chucklefuck just says shit like "dummy liar said he vented intneret. big dummy liar"

the ignorance of the american populace doesnt really phase me at this point. polls show that over 60 percent of americans think saddam hussein planned the wtc attacks...

[Blatant]

hmm

coulda sworn i heard a sample of him sayin, "i took the intiative to invent the internet"

guess i could be wrong. i been knowin that he was on a team of supporters, but i dindt think he led anything, he just supported it along with a bunch of other people. guess i was wrong.

"the ignorance of the american populace doesnt really phase me at this point. polls show that over 60 percent of americans think saddam hussein planned the wtc attacks..."

and what do you think?

[ September 09, 2003: Message edited by: Blatant ]</p>

[substance]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Aaron Money:


This is a great question. Getting over partisanship in my views towards our diplomatically/linguistically challenged Prez helped me realize that sometimes the wrong people can be dead right. And sometimes the right people can be way fucking wrong.


Tiff, what makes our current conflict hard is that our enemy has no nation. No country will fire a missile against us, but the '93 WTC attack and 9/11 still happened. What I hear in your words is that if we just keep to ourselves, no one will bother us and that if there's no country to fight, we shouldn't fight anyone.

I think Iraq represents a great opportunity to do right by the rest of the world. It's also an opportunity to fuck up royally. But when no one here supports what we do one way or another and hysteria rules, then we all lose.

a$<hr></blockquote>

A MUTHA FUCKIN MEN

Everyone is a conspiracy theorist.....

The "average american" probably couldn't handle what's actually going on...Shit has to be done ragardless.Some are doing it for the right reason and some aren't.EVERYONE has an alterior motive...Whether it's sad or not....Most people are going to ask "what's in it for me".

Substance

[Tasha]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Blatant:
you still didnt answer my question about why you decide to believe that osama was behind 9-11 but disregard any information pointing out iraqs involvment.
<hr></blockquote>

haha. cuz that information does not exist.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid79/p61cd42aa28043cb4f590525bde22586f/fb219aec.jpg.orig.jpg

[ September 10, 2003: Message edited by: Tasha ]</p>

[marktripper]

man i didnt mean to sound like such a dick in that post. but yeah, check out this link

http://www.redrat.net/gorebush/gore_net.htm

the whole shit started from a political campaign ad. they always spin shit in those. i mean, honestly i dont have a problem with politicians smearing another politician, if its the truth. but they always spin shit, take it out of context, dress it up to be something else...

and i dont think saddam had anything to do with the wtc attacks. no intelligence leads us in his direction. at the time, osama was still fueding with saddam because he is a secular leader, not the kind of islamic fundamentalist osama wants in control of arab nations.

saddam is a horrible man, cruel leader to be sure, but he was no threat to america. hell, he was hardly even a threat to american troops in his own country. actually i AM conservative in the belief that iraq's problems are their problems. i'm concerned with americans.

to me, this seems like a whole lot of money and lives (and i'm talking about our soldiers and the broken families left behind) that are getting fucked up for little in return, for americans.

of course we cant turn back now, because that would be more fucked up, but theres nothing wrong with criticiizing the war in the first place.

at this point we need to get more troops there to help stabalize shit. send the troops who are already there home, and send some new ones out, but also get our U.N. allies involved, because now its in there best interest as well.

i'm a little pissed off when bush talks about iraq being part of the war on terror when saudi arabia and pakistan, two countries who actually have very dirty hands in the whole 9-11 situation, are still recieving our financial aid.

[Blatant]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tasha:
haha. cuz that information does not exist.<hr></blockquote>

actually the information does exsist, its just that you choose not to believe it. the word information does not mean facts.

[Tasha]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Blatant:


actually the information does exsist, its just that you choose not to believe it. the word information does not mean facts.<hr></blockquote>

oh. my bad. i didnt know that this discussion was concerning semantics.

i actually just wanted to post this hilarious boondocks comic regarding all this but it didnt work.....image station can fucking go to hell. ACK.

[Blatant]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by marktripper:
man i didnt mean to sound like such a dick in that post. but yeah, check out this link

http://www.redrat.net/gorebush/gore_net.htm

the whole shit started from a political campaign ad. they always spin shit in those. i mean, honestly i dont have a problem with politicians smearing another politician, if its the truth. but they always spin shit, take it out of context, dress it up to be something else...

and i dont think saddam had anything to do with the wtc attacks. no intelligence leads us in his direction. at the time, osama was still fueding with saddam because he is a secular leader, not the kind of islamic fundamentalist osama wants in control of arab nations.

saddam is a horrible man, cruel leader to be sure, but he was no threat to america. hell, he was hardly even a threat to american troops in his own country. actually i AM conservative in the belief that iraq's problems are their problems. i'm concerned with americans.

to me, this seems like a whole lot of money and lives (and i'm talking about our soldiers and the broken families left behind) that are getting fucked up for little in return, for americans.

of course we cant turn back now, because that would be more fucked up, but theres nothing wrong with criticiizing the war in the first place.

at this point we need to get more troops there to help stabalize shit. send the troops who are already there home, and send some new ones out, but also get our U.N. allies involved, because now its in there best interest as well.

i'm a little pissed off when bush talks about iraq being part of the war on terror when saudi arabia and pakistan, two countries who actually have very dirty hands in the whole 9-11 situation, are still recieving our financial aid.<hr></blockquote>

word, good points

personally, i dont really think saddam had anything to do with the attacks on 9-11, more than anything i think its funny how easy it is to piss people off who think they know all the "facts", or not even piss them off, get them riled up. its good fun. weather it be left or right wingers, its easy for me to assume either side.

see, i dont really have a "real" opinoin on the whole situtaion seeing as how i dont have enough information. none of us do. people act as if they know whats going on, whats right, and whats wrong but really its all a bunch of horseshit.

in my eyes, there is no right or wrong, there is no real cause, there is no imidiate threat to be identified.

the thing is, if we as a people want to be heard, if we want to have a say, if we want to have a real opinoin, we cant rely on the media, our government, or liberal propaganda. we need to do somethin to say, "hey! we want to know the fucking truth!"

otherwise everyone should shut the fuck up, beuase the media isnt tellin you the whole story, the government inst tellin you the whole story, liberal america isnt tellin you the whole story, noone is tellin the whole story, and to really understand and know enough to be able to make a decision that will make a real diffence, we are all gonna need to know the whole story.

[Blatant]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tasha:
[QB]oh. my bad. i didnt know that this discussion was concerning semantics.[QB]<hr></blockquote>


well, now ya know

shit wasnt funny anyway

[ September 10, 2003: Message edited by: Blatant ]</p>

[marktripper]

i can see ways that us being in iraq might help us in the war on terror, but bush isnt talking about any of that stuff, and alot of the stuff he has been and is saying is misleading if not blatant lies.

though the rulers of a democratic free society are caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to war.

on one hand, they are supposed to be representing the people, and how are you gonna represent people if you arnt telling them the truth about what you're doing.

on the other hand, if you make your war strategies public knowledge, then, uh, the enemy knows your shit.

that said, still think bush did a horrible job of framing this war. or starting this war in the first place. ;)

[4D's]

Moore can die and rot his fat bitch ass in hell.

All I know, is if sombody punches me in the face, Im goona fight back. Then beat up their friends. Then I'll still be pissed for a while after that. That's what happened to the USA.

A$ is right on.
We need to fix that shit up over there.

[jamiel]

aaron- doing the right thing for the wrong reason is all well and good but... you can still be an idiot...

yeah, i agree, saddam and his regime were terrible etc... but running all up in there without a good justification, in what his own people have expressed as an attempt to exert "american hegemony" (see: PNAF) in the middle east... thats just not cool, it's scary...

[a_money]

I think sometimes our hegemony is misconstrued as an always bad thing. Read an article in Atlantic Monthly that pointed out that our military is on 4,000 active duty deployments outside of US bases here and abroad. Countries we don't even know, doing things we don't know about: advising militaries on civil interaction and fighting in "non-combat", aiding with infrastructure construction, training armies in professional soldiering and international law.

We can't help but be hegemonic. It's what we do.

a$

[naturalelement]

bltnt: caught the sarcsm..the rolln eyes thng hlpd.

i agree the tragedy (we shlda knwn was comn) of 9.11 stppd the train. but ya stll gtta ask why now, whts the triggr. oh yea, it was in the wrks for a bit, fundage, brainwashn ppl to believe in killn thmslvs for the "cause", hideouts, etc. thng come full circle. the bush asmin USIN 9.11 AGAIN is a cop out. 9.11 = scapegoat. now tht's pathetic.

ok hrs wht led me to blieve tht u were talkn bout the irq, 9.11, bush thng all incompassn. so whn u say leadin thngs like: xnah on bush, gore now in scenerio, gore doin a bttr job on "EVRYTHNG THTS GOIN ON RGHT NOW," 9.11, we were attckd, "i mean c'mon."

i wldn't b sayn anythng if i were inside the WTC. i'd eithr b dead or runnin for my life. wht's ur pt? wldnt' chng views.

u answr: frst fgr out who we'r really goin for. stop pillign, takn, an rapin. get the fukrs good. othr ways of doin ths besides undrtakn an ovrly aggrssv, illgl occupatn.

i likd to b spankd, lots of ppl do. so no, i wldn't give um a spankn.

chck undr the moveon ctyhall topic, the websites i pstd. the lectures, research and my gut. whn it all coinsides, pointn me to the same conclusn, tht's how i form my opnions. nvr disregrd info leadn/connctn irq...i just ddn't believe the majrity of it.

i got all upset cause i blieve the war on irq was & stll is fundmntly wrong.

a$: nooooo, i dn't want us to keep to ourslvs. i want us to bttr utilize our resources, try a dffrnt route, lrn frm histry. "no one will bothr us"...plz gv exmls of how u frm opnions bout me. for i feel as if i'm misrepn some how.

hysteria rules = lose. most def. it's not always the teams fault, the coach plays a prtty big f'n role, no? so does the coachn staff, trainrs, watr boy....

marktrppr: amen. thrs a joke bout ppl who stll blieve tht, but i cn't rmmbr it. go figure.

subs: how do we knw "thy" cldn't handle it if the gen pop is lied to all the time. dn't tell me cnn, abc, cbs, blah blah blah are repn regulrly strght. no thy'r as far into ths as bush hmslf. plz. u said ppl r drvn by greed (per convrsatn) i say ppl ALLOW thmslvs to b drvn by greed. whts ur drive in life? wht can u go to sleep w/ on ur conscience?

4d--eye for an eye till the whole wrld goes blind...or fukn explodes, no diff...

[ September 10, 2003: Message edited by: naturalelement ]</p>

[cb]

What I don't get is this? He have been bombing there cities and people for years and you don't expect them to strike back??? 9/11 was not a surprise just a matter of time. We have 9/11'ed them like 20 times since the Gulf War. Not saying we deserved it. But you had to know something was coming.

[Blatant]

well, when you look at the people in that region and what they do to eachother, of course it was only a matter of time

[naturalelement]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Clint Black Fan Club:
We have 9/11'ed them like 20 times since the Gulf War. Not saying we deserved it. But you had to know something was coming.<hr></blockquote>

exactly...wll prlly more like a few thousnd times, but who's really countn. it's the: if i pretnd it's not thr, thn it's not mentality. the fall of rome ddn't hppn in 1 day. creation, distructn...it's all a mttr of timing.

wht i was gettn @ w/ "why now/trggr" stuff is wht was the signif of tht yr. was it do to bush bein the pres, why not whn clnton was in offc? was it jst cause thy had the $/ppl to do it jst thn. i'm not gnna pretnd to knw, jst posin a ? i'm jst sayn, u dn't go about somethn like 9.11 w/out havn some sorta trggr.

bltnt: look wht we do to ea othr here. the diverse pool of fed-up, deperate, evil, sik, unwise, bloodhungry, ignorant, poor, schemeing, ppl exist evrywhr, in evry country. do u knw why ppl act like ths, wht turns thm towards fghting? ths feelings, among othrs. wht do u thnk the ppl of the mddl east see of us...wht thr govt wants thm to see, sounds familiar. not to mntion U.S. forces up the wazoo, not exactly a postv thng in most regrds to thm.

[ September 10, 2003: Message edited by: naturalelement ]</p>

[substance]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by naturalelement:
bltnt: subs: how do we knw "thy" cldn't handle it if the gen pop is lied to all the time. dn't tell me cnn, abc, cbs, blah blah blah are repn regulrly strght. no thy'r as far into ths as bush hmslf. plz. u said ppl r drvn by greed (per convrsatn) i say ppl ALLOW thmslvs to b drvn by greed. whts ur drive in life? wht can u go to sleep w/ on ur conscience?]<hr></blockquote>

1.How do you know your sources aren't as shady as all the major news sources? How come your all knowing?

2.Per our conversation last night,generally people don't get it.To think that people everywhere...(ie.The masses) are mentally stable let alone emotionally stable(in this day and age)to handle decisions that completely deal with the overall safety of the country.We get threatened everyday,and many accounts gounreported by news sources.Because the general population would go ape shit and order would be lost.Commom political science.I suggest reading "THe Prince" by Nicholo Machavelli.Though harsh,is very truthful to commom insights in running government.

3.Like I said last night.To think everything will be alright and to think that everything can be meant by different means is just HOPE.That's it your hoping that people would get it together and be compassionate to everyone's needs.We would feed the hungry and not take advantage of being a economical and political powerhouse.We could use our oiled machine to make other countries into a well oiled machine.That's just NOT how things ARE.Things aren't that cut and dry.Other countries aren't even trying to do anything for THEIR country or THEIR people.Then you want us to help them get their foot in the door...Fuck that

4. Although my views might be more radical than yours.I take it how it comes and I can see your point,but your not willing to see mine.Everything I have said is from what I have learned based on various sources.You may think I'm being lied to...Who's to say your not? All the left wing liberal hippies are just as full of shit as the right wing republicans.Just because my sources or thoughts don't have a happy ending doesn't mean that it couldn't be fact...NO ONE can say for sure what is truth and until you got some crazy clearance or and ALL SEEING EYE.All your opinions are theories.Just like mine.The only difference is I'm willing to admit that I could be wrong.See my point?

If your going to be open minded,be open minded all the time.I don't mean this harsh.So don't take it that way.It just gets a bit under my skin when things are said but the full circle isn't accounted for.What's right and wrong is YOUR decision.Just remember what your fighting for.

Substance

[naturalelement]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Substance:
[QB]

1.How do you know your sources aren't as shady as all the major news sources? How come your all knowing?

**nvr said my sources were IT, the one an only. not all knwing eithr. per prvious post: i questn evrythng, resrch (mainstream and othr), thn form educatd opnions.

2.Per our conversation last night,generally people don't get it.

**boy, u rlly dn't wanna gv ppl credit. tht's like goin up to a strngr an sayn: i'm gnna lie to u cause ur to weak and stupid to handle the truth.

To think that people everywhere...(ie.The masses) are mentally stable let alone emotionally stable(in this day and age)to handle decisions that completely deal with the overall safety of the country.

** i agree, ppl dn't need to knw evrythng, for ordrs sake. but lyin to thm is settn evryone up for failure.

We get threatened everyday,and many accounts gounreported by news sources.Because the general population would go ape shit and order would be lost.

** agreed.

Commom political science.

I suggest reading "THe Prince" by Nicholo Machavelli.Though harsh,is very truthful to commom insights in running government.

** have. most def a lot of good sht...thn thr's the messd stuff.

3.Like I said last night.To think everything will be alright and to think that everything can be meant by different means is just HOPE.

** to dream/hope is our human nature. to make sht hppn takes guts and will...if thrs a will and enough ppl workn thrs a way. democracy.

That's it your hoping that people would get it together and be compassionate to everyone's needs.

** i recognz the impssbility of infinite words like everyone. no way it'll hppn, but distribution of money, resources, services, etc. is a possblty.

We would feed the hungry and not take advantage of being a economical and political powerhouse.

** we cld do both.

We could use our oiled machine to make other countries into a well oiled machine.That's just NOT how things ARE.

** bullsht. tht's just NOT how thngs ARE NOW. we keep doin the same sht ovr an ovr and it's gettn worse. yea, thank goodness for all the advances, but dn't say they wldn't occur if thngs were dffrnt. like u said bout the pyramids...we cn't fully recreate, yet thy usd such simple materials. it's wht u do w/ wht u got that makes the diffrnc. we have a lot, some wld say more thn any othr county...are we usin it rght, i dn't thnk so and i'm not the only 1.

Things aren't that cut and dry.

**nothn is and dn't thnk i'm simplifin the sitch by suggstin altrnate routes, nothn is goin to be easy, not everyone is gonna b happy, but thngs can improve.

Other countries aren't even trying to do anything for THEIR country or THEIR people. Then you wanna ask us to help them get their foot in the door. Fuck that.

**hey, i'm not sayn we go out and mothr t evryone in the wrld, i'm sayn utilize our resources bttr. i'm sik of seein how much fukn these guns, bombs, planes cost. wht's the $ figr on the war rght now? whoa. i wanna knw how mch it costs to teach ppl to read...to fund programs tht cut energy costs, watr and gas consumption, educatn bout sex and reproductn to cool out ths ovr popultn sht, etc. i also hope ur not sayn piss on evry1 else subs...tht's a bad attitude, kinda slfish too.


4. Although my views might be more radical than yours.I take it how it comes and I can see your point,but your not willing to see mine.

** i read ur points, i see thm, i jst dn't agre w/ thm. tht's all, jst like u dn't agree w/ a lot of mine. no biggie.

Everything I have said is from what I have learned based on various sources.

**good, me too.

You may think I'm being lied to...Who's to say your not?

**we all are, tht's why u research and go frm thr.

All the left wing liberal hippies are just as full of shit as the right wing republicans.

**hope ur not thnkin i'm gonna disagree w/ u thr.

Just because my sources or thoughts don't have a happy ending doesn't mean that it couldn't be fact...NO ONE can say for sure what is truth and until you got some crazy clearance or and ALL SEEING EYE.

**i dn't knw wht sources ur chckn, but i dn't see a lot of hppy endins anywhr. and i've nevr claimd to be all knwin or spitin the absolute truth...jst my take.

All your opinions are theories.

** some theories, but i prefer educated guesses. takes a lot to fully develop a theory.

Just like mine.The only difference is I'm willing to admit that I could be wrong.See my point?

**again, nevr said thr wasn't a pssblity tht i cld b wrng. so nah, i dn't c tht point @ all.

If your going to be open minded,be open minded all the time.

**k, i'll keep tht in my open mind.

I don't mean this harsh.So don't take it that way.It just gets a bit under my skin when things are said but the full circle isn't accounted for.

**i can thnk of ppl on here who are harsh. ths is not, ths is a discssn.

What's right and wrong is YOUR decision.

**but thr r common rght and wrngs, dn't frget tht.

Just remember what your fighting for.

**dn't thnk i'll be worrin bout losin my morals, values and beliefs anytime soon.

[a_money]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by naturalelement:


a$: nooooo, i dn't want us to keep to ourslvs. i want us to bttr utilize our resources, try a dffrnt route, lrn frm histry. "no one will bothr us"...plz gv exmls of how u frm opnions bout me. for i feel as if i'm misrepn some how.<hr></blockquote>

In all your posts I see a derisive attitude towards anything the Prez does, especially intervention. I've never seen a positive alternative presented. You have lots of wrongs but no apparent solutions or alternatives.

a$

[naturalelement]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Aaron Money:


In all your posts I see a derisive attitude towards anything the Prez does, especially intervention. I've never seen a positive alternative presented. You have lots of wrongs but no apparent solutions or alternatives.

a$<hr></blockquote>

whn we're talkn bout 9.11, irq, homosexual marriages...ya dmn rght i dn't have mch good to say bout the BUSH ADMINSTRTN, not jst bush. if we're talkn bout some othr bush admin stuff, i can thnk of some + thngs he's done...few an far between, but a few. i've gvn some alternatives, if u want me to get way in2 it i wll. if u want, we can talk policy...thrs ALOT to tlk bout. i knw u knw ths.

[jamiel]

aaron- it's when people talk about hegemony that i get scared. bombing iraq to pieces in an attempt to scare the rest of the middle east into line didn't work. we can agree on that much, right? the palestinians didn't say "oh shit, these guys mean business" and quit causing trouble, as everyone clearly had hoped for. oh well.

tiff- your outrage is misplaced, and your logic is pretty out there sometimes. bush asking for money to rebuild iraq is a good thing, because iraq needs to be rebuilt. you can't blame the guy for asking for money to clean up his mess, though i'd say the mess is a little excessive. the media isn't brainwashing us all. the republicans don't run everything (nor, as they'd have you believe, do the liberals/jews). i appreciate seeing a passionate liberal, but it just seems like you've had a lot of coffee each time you talk about politics.

-j

[ghettoblaster]

now look what the bush adminstration has gone and done:

http://www.theonion.com/3935/top_story.html

[substance]

Tiff

Selfish-Yes definately right now I am.You can say that I don't have much faith either.Because I've seen it for so many years.I'm not all old or anything,but it's right there.Due to my last 3 months of life I'd say I've turned into a insensitive,sarcastive,sadistic asshole,but atlest I can laugh about it.

Giving credit to people and the level of intellect they are on is something I have to decide.I've tried to give this a chance on many occasions.Doing Customer Service for 7 years probably helped.How I interact with people is not normal.I don't like to talk about the weather.However people SHOW me how much of an idiot they are everyday.So maybe I'm falling into the same trap.

I think it's great that your very passinate about your beleifs.That's very commendable.I don't mean that sarcastic either... smile.gif

I just forgot how to go on blind faith.I've always needed to have something "there".I just don't think things will change.I don't think enough people care to actually change it.

The country is so split up right now with viewpoints.To the point where our elections are so diverse that people with only 25-30% can actually be elected.I just don't think we can get enough people to agree on what to do.Everyone's got ideas ,but no solutions.

America as a country will only rally around the system when something happens.They are all "plugged in" to the brainwash monster and that works on all ends.

I don't even have a point anymore.

Have a nice day

Substance

[4D's]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Aaron Money:


In all your posts I see a derisive attitude towards anything the Prez does, especially intervention. I've never seen a positive alternative presented. You have lots of wrongs but no apparent solutions or alternatives.

a$<hr></blockquote>

Exactly the problem with the democratic party these days. I'd just like you to know that im an Independent. I like some ideas from each party, and I hate ideas from each party. Right now, we have to trust what the leaders of our country are doing. If you don't like it, then change it with your vote in 04. But don't sit there and complain without saying what a real alternative is
to the problems facing our country.

PS NaturalElement, as long as you keep writing in that b.s. shorthand of yours, Ill never read a word you say. Its annoying.

[naturalelement]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 4D's:
PS NaturalElement, as long as you keep writing in that b.s. shorthand of yours, Ill never read a word you say. Its annoying.<hr></blockquote>

too bad for u thn. if it's too hard to read, i'd b glad to wrt it out for u whn i have time. but if it's jst cause it annoying to u, thn ur not worth it in the frst plc. i'd nvr tll someone tht's speakn or writin to chng it, who do u thnk u r?

jamie: i'm not pissd tht he askd for $. if u read corrctly, u'd see tht i said it is now a necessity. wht i'm "outrgd" bout is how we got in ths positn in the frst plc. ths war shld not have hppnd.

out thr...too me, goin in and doin wht we've done to ths country on top of dozns of othr countries is "out thr." i desire a lot, wrk for it too, do i thnk it's all gnna become a reality, prlly not...not gnna b discouraged.

regrdlss of wht u want to believe, thr is a good deal of media brainwshn...bout 5 mjr corps dictate 80% of wht we see, hear, read. indpndnt views r lost/drownd out...remembr the journalists who were voicen against ths war on radio & tv stations and how quickly thy got cannd. how is it tht 2 yrs latr ovr 50% of the pop stll thnk sadman is respnsbl for 9.11, tht d.uranium is stable and realitively harmlss. like i said, i seek out all sources, including big media, ea. has good pts and bad. i jst c way to mch false info bein drlld into ppls heads via big m. u may not feel tht way, but i thnk we've seen more thn enough bush admin lies clld out.

subs: i guess i dn't knw wht to say to ppl who lose hope, who say ths is the way it is and tht's how it's gnna b. for some reason i stll believe in my fllw human beings. no mttr how mch sht goes dwn...i'm not gnna sit bck and say, well ths suks, so fuk it. no way. dn't let the weight of the wrld get u dwn, u have so mch offr.

[Blatant]

i think you should read your buddy Thich Nhat Hanhs book entitled Anger

[imported_Dj_Pseudonym]

Moore is a punk bitch! Colombine was a good movie true. but his speach @ the oscars was a lil much! a great MC said "even if you hate Bush your STILL dying with us" lets see good ol' Mikey Moore go live in the middle east or Europe where the governments aren't as fair to their citizens see how anti american his fat ass is then he's a disgrace to every America who has fought/died for this country. I'm all for a good movie don't get me wrong but I can't see this movie being anythin but 2hours be littling and trash talk! Lets see Moore run for president and how happy of a world we'd have then.
graemlins/devil.gif
-Pseudo

[fiscally libertarian]

First off Michael Moore is a piece of shit liar. You want some truth behind his so called "documentary" read this truth about bowling for columbine (http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html)

Hippies smell..

[imported_Dj_Pseudonym]

Yeah Hippies do smell!
graemlins/peace.gif
-Pseudo graemlins/devil.gif

[Tasha]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by fiscally libertarian:
First off Michael Moore is a piece of shit liar. You want some truth behind his so called "documentary" read this truth about bowling for columbine (http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html)

Hippies smell..<hr></blockquote>

wow. i read that whole thing.
it was painful...
because i did (do?) passionately love 'bowling for columbine.' i think it makes valid points, particularly regarding the media's scare tactics. (but then again if violent movies and violent videogames cannot cause violence, then can newscasts about violence do so? although his point DID seem to be more about a whole pervading atmosphere of fear created by the media... not just violence shown on the broadcasts... anyhow.)

eh.

i do hate guns
i hate violence

but i love seeking the truth... and it's hard to come to terms with how absurdly and intentionally deceptive 'bowling' is. clearly, i cant discount that fact just because i like the conclusion that moore comes to.

corruption.
this sucks.

moore seems to be fucking himself and his causes over.... cuz i am definitely the kind of person he wants in his audience.. i am very empathetic to his causes. BUT i dont even WANT to watch the bush film for fear of being completely mislead.

[ September 19, 2003: Message edited by: Tasha ]</p>

[fiscally libertarian]

Tasha I know how your feeling I somewhat liked his earlier films and tv shows myself. I have come to the conclusion he is just a very commited socialist propogandists..

Plus I wanted to punch him in the face when I saw him pick on poor old Heston who at that time was suffering from the start of alzheimers.

Yes Hippies smell.. graemlins/fight.gif

[Tasha]

yeah... i've been thinking about it all day... it's odd. i've thought about 'bowling' every day since i saw it. but now my thinking has a very different feel to it.

to where do i direct my rage? :mad: (just kidding..)

it is a little hard to swallow someone calling heston "poor old heston"
i do acknowledge his humanity.. and believe he was misrepresented in moore's film. however, i cant really condone the existance or goodnessss of the president of the nra. makes me wanna hurl.

also, i've no way of knowing how credible this website is (other than the parts that i can see in the movie for myself!).

[ September 19, 2003: Message edited by: Tasha ]</p>

[Jay Bee]

Tasha, join us conservatives. It's a better and realistic way of life.

[Blatant]

i dont get whats wrong with the NRA

they arent the ones killin people

so its the NRAs fault that some stupid fucks that felt rejected decided to shoot up their school?

when cats on the street shoot eachother, there isnt this out cry, blaming other people and orginizations.

they just lock em up, call em criminals, and thats the end of it.

only when some shit goes down in white suburbia, thats when people start blaming music, video games, tv and the NRA.

[Tasha]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Blatant:
i dont get whats wrong with the NRA

they arent the ones killin people

so its the NRAs fault that some stupid fucks that felt rejected decided to shoot up their school?

when cats on the street shoot eachother, there isnt this out cry, blaming other people and orginizations.

they just lock em up, call em criminals, and thats the end of it.

only when some shit goes down in white suburbia, thats when people start blaming music, video games, tv and the NRA.<hr></blockquote>

i dont think that anything is ever ONE person or ONE organization's fault.

i am simply not a fan of an organization that's into guns.

i hate guns. they can do one thing: hurt/kill animals.people. not so appealing to me.

i've hated them my whole life.

having a gun held to my head in dinkytown a month ago did not encourage me to like guns. most people wont understand how much guns suck until they have one put up to their temple and have the following thoughts running through their head:

"i
DONT
WANT
TO
DIE"

i am certainly not blaming that situation on the gun. but had that dude NOT had a gun, the situation would have been vastly improved for me.

regarding your comments on white suburbia, dont you think that that kind of makes sense? when one grows up with all the advantages: money, being white, good schools... people have to grope for answers as to why little fuckers be shooting each other. when people shoot each other in the ghetto...or over drugs... or.... it's easier to guess as to why. poverty. racism. alla that.i'm not trying to put any of this in a box and say that i have answers.... just thinking out loud.

[screwloose]

Wow, this is like bizarro land, a bunch of right-wingers and Bush-backers calling themselves hip hop. Only in Minnesota.

[Blatant]

whats wrong with ownin a gun in order to go hunting?

i mean, is goin out shootin an animal takin it home and eatin that shit wrong?

so its only okay to eat meat that has been slaughtered in a sluaghter house after having the worst life it could have possibly had, then freezer packin it or processing it.

you would rather eat some old ass meat thats been freezer packed, than eat some fresh shit?

trust me, you eat some freshly shot pheseant or deer, anything fresh really, anything wild and fresh. shits good.

[ September 22, 2003: Message edited by: Blatant ]</p>

[Tasha]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Blatant:
whats wrong with ownin a gun in order to go hunting?

i mean, is goin out shootin an animal takin it home and eatin that shit wrong?

so its only okay to eat meat that has been slaughtered in a sluaghter house after having the worst life it could have possibly had, then freezer packin it or processing it.

you would rather eat some old ass meat thats been freezer packed, than eat some fresh shit?

trust me, you eat some freshly shot pheseant or deer, anything fresh really, anything wild and fresh. shits good.
<hr></blockquote>

um.
well.................. i dont eat meat. so.
i'd rather not eat any meat. yuck. dead animal just doesnt appeal to me.

why dont you use a bow and arrow or some shit?


i mean, jesus, where the fuck did you get this:
"so its only okay to eat meat that has been slaughtered in a sluaghter house after having the worst life it could have possibly had, then freezer packin it or processing it." from my statements? that's insane. clearly someone who is practicallly vegan would not be caught dead stating that kind of absurdity.

if you wanna go hunt, be my guest. i just think it's gross. i dont get how anyone could want to shoot an animal. that doesnt mean i think it's wrong. (ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww).

[a_money]

I like meat. I would like to hunt one day.

I've also had guns waved at me, thrice. Once I was looking right down the barrel. The other times they were in my kidneys.

I think licensing and registering ALL guns is the way to go. They should be licensed, taxed and registered by the county. Have as many as you want.

I think having guns, even licensed ones, carried by private citizens in public is lunacy. If a cop, someone trained in situation management and firearms use, will only hit their target under duress 1 of 10 times, what happens when Johnny Quickdraw wants to play vigilante at the Quik E Mart?

a$

[Blatant]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tasha:


um.
well.................. i dont eat meat. so.
i'd rather not eat any meat. yuck. dead animal just doesnt appeal to me.

why dont you use a bow and arrow or some shit?


i mean, jesus, where the fuck did you get this:
"so its only okay to eat meat that has been slaughtered in a sluaghter house after having the worst life it could have possibly had, then freezer packin it or processing it." from my statements? that's insane. clearly someone who is practicallly vegan would not be caught dead stating that kind of absurdity.

if you wanna go hunt, be my guest. i just think it's gross. i dont get how anyone could want to shoot an animal. that doesnt mean i think it's wrong. (ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww).<hr></blockquote>

that was a general statement, not really directed towards you

but, ya know, those machines used to harvest soy and other non meat products kill thousands upon thousands of field rodents like cute little fury rabbits and shit every year.

thing is, they just discard those little cute critters.

think bout that next time your sippin on your soy milk, or eatin your vegan meal.

oh and i've ran from bullets before, not that i was the one gettin shot at, but i wasnt tryin to get caught up in some cross fire shit, so i know how scary a gun can be.

still doesnt mean people shouldnt be allowed to use them.

[ September 22, 2003: Message edited by: Blatant ]</p>

[Tasha]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Blatant:

but, ya know, those machines used to harvest soy and other non meat products kill thousands upon thousands of field rodents. thing is, they just discard those little cute critters.

think bout that next time your sippin on your soy milk, or eatin your vegan meal.

oh and i've ran from bullets before, not that i was the one gettin shot at, but i wasnt tryin to get caught up in some cross fire shit, so i know how scary a gun can be.

still doesnt mean people shouldnt be allowed to use them.
<hr></blockquote>

hehe. yeah... i am aware of the fact that rodents get chopped up when harvesting shit. oh well.. i mean, it's not really practical for me to try to grow all my own vegetables living in mn...

also, i dont believe it is wrong to eat animals. i think that where i live it is more environmentally sound, but in other areas where the vegetation cant be eaten by anythign cept cattle... then i can see how eating cattle would be more environmentally sound.

anyhow, i digress.

i am not arguing that guns should be banned (although i would be THRILLED if that could happen).

i guess i am arguing that citizens should not be carrying concealed weapons around. not that that little shit that put a gun to my head had a weapons license...

if there was some way to make weapons a whole lot less available i'd be all in favor of that. but how can anyone control guns that are being acquired illegally? i have no ideas..

[holla back]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by screwloose:
Wow, this is like bizarro land, a bunch of right-wingers and Bush-backers calling themselves hip hop. Only in Minnesota.<hr></blockquote>


EXACTLY MY POINT

you cant be hip hop and be a right winger..theyre like polar oposites hip hop is by no means conservative..oxymoron

[holla back]

o yea i hate guns too..BAD IDEA to give em to random citizens..like tasha said (i think thats who said it)what happens when mr. random hero decides its his duty to up hold the law..or what happens when people get road rage and happen to have their gun with them..

for hunting purposes..yea i spose but the hand gun is the worlds worst invention..

[Blatant]

if there werent hand guns people would just be shankin eachother, so what the fuck

it aint the guns fault, its the person holdin it.

[Tasha]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by holla back:
like tasha said (i think thats who said it)what happens when mr. random hero decides its his duty to up hold the law..<hr></blockquote>

a$ said it, but i agree.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Blatant:
if there werent hand guns people would just be shankin eachother, so what the fuck

it aint the guns fault, its the person holdin it.<hr></blockquote>


but, it's a whole lot easier to run from a club ora knife than it is to run from a bullet.

[a_money]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by holla back:



EXACTLY MY POINT

you cant be hip hop and be a right winger..theyre like polar oposites hip hop is by no means conservative..oxymoron<hr></blockquote>

Oh?

http://www.citylightssoftware.com/reporter01109.html

Williams BAMPAC study found that younger Blacks from the hip-hop generation tend to be more issue-orientated than focused on particular political party.*

"They will be motivated by issues such as cutting taxes, improving public education and reforming social security. They will vote for candidates based on these issues," Williams said.*

a$

[Blatant]

what the fuck difference does that make tasha?

the point is, people will kill eachother no matter if guns are banned or not.

if someone is crazy enough to kill someone, they are gonna fuckin kill em. doesnt matter what they kill em with.

[ September 22, 2003: Message edited by: Blatant ]</p>

[Tasha]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Blatant:
what the fuck difference does that make tasha?

the point is, people will kill eachother no matter if guns are banned or not.

if someone is crazy enough to kill someone, they are gonna fuckin kill em. doesnt matter what they kill em with.
<hr></blockquote>

the point is that you cant kill me with a baseball bat if i RUN but you CAN kill me with a GUN if i RUN.

so, guns are a lot more dangerous than other weapons.

[Jay Bee]

Guns are not being given to random citizens by the State. In fact, lots of people cannot own guns, even under the current law.

I am fucked just cause they say I got some mental issues.. which is ridiculous, so sometimes it gets rocked anyway.

[Tasha]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Jay Bee:
Guns are not being given to random citizens by the State. In fact, lots of people cannot own guns, even under the current law.

I am fucked just cause they say I got some mental issues.. which is ridiculous, so sometimes it gets rocked anyway.<hr></blockquote>

what gets rocked?

[fiscally libertarian]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by screwloose:
Wow, this is like bizarro land, a bunch of right-wingers and Bush-backers calling themselves hip hop. Only in Minnesota.<hr></blockquote>

Screw Loose if beleiving enough in myself to where I don't feel I need some whiney liberal in government telling me how to live my life is right wing then yes thats me..

But PLEASE don't tell me I'm a bush-backer cause I will puke I am of the paleo-conservative train of thought not this neo-conservative bullshit, I beleive this hegemonic crusade were on is against everything this country was founded on. I am still of the train of thought that the less government the better not like bush who signs whatever is put in front of him.

Hope this clears things up.

Hippies smell graemlins/pimp.gif

[holla back]

shit right wingers not only tell you how you should live your life but what your religious views should be, and that your a traitor if you dont support the president or the war, not only that but theyre taking your civil liberties away..


wake up and smell the coffee

[Tasha]

there's been yet another school shooting.

this one's in minnesota by st. cloud at a high school. some kid shot two students in gym class.

[Blatant]

well hot damn

the NRA musta done gave them kids some guns huh

[Tasha]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Blatant:
well hot damn

the NRA musta done gave them kids some guns huh<hr></blockquote>

that's reeeeeeeeeal respectful. (sarcasm)

i dont think anyone would agree with what you just said anyhow.

update: one of them (aaron rollins) has now died.

[Blatant]

well, what can i say

im a reeeeeeeeeal respectful guy

[Tasha]

ok.

out of curiosity, what are your feelings on this shooting?

apathy? sadness? anger? acceptance? confusion?

[naturalelement]

bush tells leadrs/nations thy have to choose: "between those who seek ordr and those who spread chaos; btween those who wrk for peaceful chng and those who adopt the methods of gangstrs; btween those who honor the rghts of man and those who deliberately take the lives of men and womn and chldren w/out mercy or shame. btween these altrntves thr is no neurl ground"

wtf bush??? evn though i knw we're suppsd to be the ones seekn order, wrkin for a peaceful chng; i jst cn't c how we're not lookn like the gangstrs, takn lives w/out mercy or shame. nice try though douchebag, no wndr he had sch a "cool" recption, spittn sht like tht.

anthr school shootin...big surprise, teasing???? i have a client tht goes through relntlss abuse @ school day in, day out. says he wnts to hurt those kids--wsh thy'd die, he's 10. yet we dn't need $ for aftr school prgrms, social progrms, educatn, more peer assistnc to assist these chldrn. go ahead, say it's thr parnts job...till some1 u knw ends up dead cause some othr kid's prnts are cluelss. it's all of our jobs.

[Blatant]

my feelings are as follows

people need to discpiline their stupid fuckin children.

your the one who thinks guns are the root of people gettin killed right? that without guns, people wouldnt kill eachother so much? that baseball bats and knifes are useless when it comes to killing someone?
and arent you also the one who is sick and tired of people not takin responsibility?
so should the gun take responsiblity? or should the person shooting the gun take the responsibility?
yeah, ya know, most people think they can walk into a school shoot their fellow students and not have any consequences.
the gun probly made him do it, i mean you dont have to be crazy to walk up to someone who teased you and shoot them. i mean after all they fuckin TEASED you. man if i ever got teased i'd fuckin blow someones brains out.
oh wait, i did get teased, and i didnt blow anyones brains out, fuck i must be crazy, i bet if i could have gotten a hold of gun i would have, oh wait, i knew 5 different people at one time that i could have gotten a gun from, oh wait, i did have a gun in my posession, and what the fuck, i never shot anyone. i must be crazy cuz ya know, everyone with a gun wants to shoot someone with it. i mean thats the whole purpose behind makin it legal to carry guns, so people can blast eachother right?

[ September 24, 2003: Message edited by: Blatant ]</p>

[a_money]

I know!

Let's start a new thread!
I'll do it.

a$